laser vs laser 2 sailboat

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Laser vs Laser 2

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Hey guys So I've just recently started my third year sailing (second year racing), and I've kind of been thinking it's about time my girlfriend and I moved up to our own boat(s). The yacht club happens to be selling off some of the lasers and laser 2s from their youth sailing program fairly cheaply, so the timing would seem to be good. My question is, should I buy a single laser 2, or a pair of standards? I'd kind of like something I can singlehand myself if she can't make it out, and I worry about being able to keep the 2 upright by myself with a main and jib up. On the other hand, it would be nice to at some point be able to take one of my non-sailing friends/younger siblings/ etc out for a sail, and I'm not too sure a standard would have the space for two people. I'm still sort of leaning towards the standard, but I figured I'd throw a post up on here and see what you guys thought. Thanks!  

I would think the 2 would limit your racing unless they have a big class of them in your area ?  

I just went through the same decision. In the end, I decided on a Laser II because I wanted to be able to practice with as many sails as possible. I posted in forums and asked around, and was told that I should be able to single-hand the Laser II. (That said, I've only been out on it with friends so far, so I haven't tried single-handing it yet.) One thing to consider: my Laser II was in poor shape when I got it, and while working on it, I found that parts are getting harder to come by, since the Laser II is no longer being made. There are quite a few parts that are identical on a Laser, so you can order those, but others are a little more iffy. For example, mine came without a spinnaker, which I figured was no big deal - I'd just pick one up somewhere else. But I've been surprised by how difficult it is to locate a whisker pole for a Laser II. Overall, I still think I made the right decision - it's fun to have two people out, I should be able to single-hand, and I get to practice with both the main and jib (and spinnaker, if I can ever find one.) But there are drawbacks to be aware of, such as limited racing and parts availability.  

The standard Laser is a great boat and is easily handled by one, or two people of modest size/weight (better in higher winds). On the other hand you could always sail the Laser 2 with just the main when you go out solo at first. Learn to tack both sails at once while soloing and lose the jib when the wind picks up or whatever survival strategy you come up with. Both of them are great boats. Does the Laser 2 you are looking at have the trapeze lines to the mast for hiking out? If so you'll need a harness to hook into the trapeze. The Laser 2 is quite a bit more 'technical' then the standard Laser with more gear and rigging. There is something nice about a simply rigged boat that is easy to set up and break down. Your money, your life and your choice. Have fun with it. Disclosure: I have only sailed the standard Laser (non racing set up) and have wanted to try out a Laser II.  

My son has a Laser 2 in Arizona, USA, and has had some challenges in finding parts, especially on a budget. Cb, where is the club that was selling the Laser 2 boats?  

I had a Laser 2 when I first started sailing and had no trouble single handing it - seems I did something to the jib sheets so I could cross sheet them and control the jib from the high side - I got the Laser 2 over the plain Laser because the Laser did not have enough room for me (I am 6 ft 4 inches tall).  

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Laser 2 or something else

• Thread starter giwy1
• Start date 6 Jul 2015

Hi All, I have been sailing for about 6 months but only on a lake, I have now moved and my nearest club is on the sea so this is a new challenge for me. Also my old club use to hire out boats but this club doesn't so i am looking to buy my first boat. I would like the option to sail single handed and the option to take a friend or sibling out. However I am 19st and my son for instance is about 16st and 6ft 4, this is probably the most extreme if I went out with a crew. I am looking at buying a Laser2 after doing a bit of research, I'm not wanting to race just have a good time on the water and cruise around a bit. What are peoples views? What other boats would be recommended? I have read that the Laser2 turtles really easy and I know where my new club is it's a bit muddy, so if I am out on my own and the boat turtles what are the likelihoods of it getting stuck in the mud and if so what are the likelihood of me being able to free it and righting the boat and if all else fails what are my options. I would always sail fairly close to the shoreline if I'm out on my own, until such times that I feel that I have the skills and confidence to go out further. The club is at the mouth of an estuary. Any advise on any of the above would be really helpful. Please keep in mind my size and lack of experience.  

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Laser2 is quite old and could be hard to shift if you change your mind. If afraid of going over you can get Mast floats to prevent it going turtle. Have you considered something less sporty, like a Wayfarer? May suit yourself+son better size wise (bigger/more room, more stable)  

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Laser 2 is very much a "sit on" kinda boat rather than "sit in". I'm more of a dinghy racer than a cruiser, however I also think you could probably get something a bit better than a Laser 2. Tell us your budget. Can I advise whatever you do, do not fit a mast float if singlehanding. Trust me, if the wind suddenly pipes up and you tip it in, you would much rather have the mild inconvenience of righting from turtle, as opposed to the disastrous situation of a boat being blown downwind on it's side faster than you can swim. With your size, there are very few boats that you would not easily be able to right singlehanded with the correct technique and a bit of patience.  

A Wayfarer could well be the boat for you. Can be an issue on a steep slip but you can manage with chocks & block & tackle or a long rope & the car. A foam triangle can be inserted into a pocket sewn onto the main peak. I've heard of some being fitted with a metal centre plate. Have a word with the class association, they're a friendly bunch with unlimited knowledge. The "Apollo Duck" site have many for sale as do the C/A  

You will be far too heavy for a Laser 2. What boats do they sail at your new club?  

michael_w said: You will be far too heavy for a Laser 2. What boats do they sail at your new club? Click to expand...

The Wayfarer seems a good choice. I also like the Laser 16 but I don't think that there are many around. There are a lot of newer, more up to date dinghies around 16ft that look like fun but I guess that they are a lot more expensive. Laser 2 is a bad choice! Good luck in your search, please do let us know what you find. Welcome to the forum and I hope you enjoy your new boat!  

giwy1 said: Hi All, I am 19st and my son for instance is about 16st and 6ft 4, this is probably the most extreme if I went out with a crew. Please keep in mind my size and lack of experience. Click to expand...

davidjackson said: The Wayfarer seems a good choice. I also like the Laser 16 but I don't think that there are many around. There are a lot of newer, more up to date dinghies around 16ft that look like fun but I guess that they are a lot more expensive. Laser 2 is a bad choice! Good luck in your search, please do let us know what you find. Welcome to the forum and I hope you enjoy your new boat! Click to expand...

Consider an Albacore as well. Lighter and faster than a Wayfarer. Can take the weight of both of you and you can singlehand it (I single hand mine at 15 1/2 stone). Able to cruise as well as race.  

Quandary said: I had a laser 13, another very similar cruising dinghy also stable and very sturdy but easy to launch and also, like the 16, with a roller furling jib and a 2 piece mast. Click to expand...

I would think either a Laser 2, or a Laser 13, carrying 35 stone, would be guaranteed to put people off sailing dinghies? If the OP is serious about sailing together, I would not look at anything smaller than an Albacore. It would pay to consider whether a spinnaker is wanted or not. Asymmetrics are easy to use and add a lot to crewing IMHO.  

lw395 said: Asymmetrics are easy to use and add a lot to crewing IMHO. Click to expand...

lw395 said: I would think either a Laser 2, or a Laser 13, carrying 35 stone, would be guaranteed to put people off sailing dinghies? Click to expand...

Laser Stratos or RS Vision I would of thought more suitable for two big lads.  

DJE said: Laser Stratos or RS Vision I would of thought more suitable for two big lads. Click to expand...

Boats I have seen successfully sailed by the larger helm ,best of all the Albacore,wayfarer,a 505 not as a race boat but the 35+ stone crew enjoy the sailing dragging huge quarter wave in fresh conditions.I have not seen large crews in a Kestrel but should work at modest cost for a secondhand starter boat,also as said Laser Stratos and possibly Comet Trio .One certainty is that Laser 2 or 3000 will not fill the requirement.  

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Laser vs ILCA

A Guide to the New Landscape of ILCAs and Lasers

A passion for Laser sailing and supporting fellow Laser sailors has been core to the identity of West Coast Sailing since our founding in 2005.  We’re here to help you understand recent changes with the racing class and the supply chain of new boats, parts, and sails. Below are answers to common questions and practical insight from our team. Additional updates will be made to this page as new information is learned from class leaders and builders.

Updated September 1st, 2020

What is an ILCA? The International Laser Class Association (ILCA) is the primary entity that organizes Laser racing around the world. In 2019, ILCA began a process of authorizing new boat manufacturers to build boats that could be raced in ILCA events. Due to trademark considerations, this new boat, which shares all one design characteristics of the Laser, is known as the ILCA.

Further Reading: 'Past, Present, and Future of Laser Class' by Scuttlebutt Sailing News

What about Lasers and LaserPerformance? LaserPerformance (LP) is continuing to build Lasers.  As LP is no longer an authorized builder for the ILCA racing class, new Lasers will not have World-Sailing issued ILCA plaques (stickers) in the cockpit, which allow them to be raced in events such as ILCA’s North American Championship.  LP launched a new class association called The Laser Class (TLC) and Lasers will be eligible for TLC events.  The frequency and geographic distribution of TLC events is still to be determined.

Should I buy a Laser or an ILCA? If you aren’t going to race your boat, a lower-priced LaserPerformance Laser is a great choice.  We’re expecting our next shipment of new Lasers in early 2021.  If you are going to race or if you’d like to have the option to eventually sell your boat to a racer, then you should consider an ILCA.  We very carefully selected Ovington Boats of the UK as the ILCA manufacturer we will work with.  Our first shipment of Ovington ILCAs will arrive in late 2020.

Are old Lasers and Laser components ILCA Class-Legal? All existing Lasers with ISAF or World Sailing plaques and all existing Laser components that were class-legal for ILCA before these recent changes will be grandfathered into the ILCA class as class-legal.

How do I shop for ILCA class-legal parts and sails? Simply check the product descriptions on our website to see if an item is 'class-legal.'  Some items, such as tillers and tiller extensions, are not regulated by the class - reach out to us if you have questions.

What if I race with my local fleet, but not in major regattas? Check with your local fleet organizer to determine whether it’s an issue to race with boats, parts, or sails that aren’t ILCA class-legal.

What if I own a Laser and need parts, but do not race? Recreational Laser sailors can use the full range of Laser and ILCA parts, as well as replica/practice fittings, on their boats. New ILCA parts are compatible with existing Laser sailboats and may be more readily available. Price and availability of these products may vary, so we encourage you to buy whatever works for you so that you can get out on the water and enjoy your boat.

Legal note: Laser and the starburst logo are registered trademarks of LaserPerformance.

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Laser vs Aero vs Melges? That’s Not the Question

Ever since the RS Aero first appeared, everyone seems focused on the question “Which is the better boat, the Aero or the Laser?” As the Melges 14 gains steam, the question will be which is best of the three. That’s not the important question. At all. Both the new boats are surely better than the Laser. They’re 40 years newer and have the advantage of current materials and construction techniques. If they’re not better, RS and Melges have really screwed up. Which they have not. Both companies are clearly committed to making a great product.

No, the real question is, what’s the future of the Laser class? Most of the 210,000 boats built are still around. There are active fleets worldwide and an extremely well-established class association. And you know what? It’s still a great sailing boat. Thanks Bruce, Bruce and Hans.

My LTR with the Laser and Fleet Demise

For me personally, it’s painful. I pined for the boat when it was new and I was too small. I fussed over my first used lime green Laser to no end as a teenager. Since then I’ve sailed a succession of Lasers, dragged them all over the Midwest and Northwest to regattas I would never win. I’ve been beaten up by the boat more often than I can remember. Many times my extremities have required hours to get back proper circulation and my muscles days to relieve soreness. I’ve been sunburned and bruised to the extreme.

Yet, I love her so.

The Seattle Laser Fleet (SLF) is giving all appearances of dying. As ground zero for the RS Aero movement in North America, the new boat has lured away most SLF stalwarts. And through attrition and lack of promotion recently, the fleet has dwindled. To make things interesting in our weekly racing, we (~5 Lasers) start on the (~7) Aero’s preparatory signal (one minute ahead on a three minute sequence) and try to hold them off to the finish. It’s not as satisfying as, say, 12 boats of the same kind.

Admittedly, I’m an SLF evangelist. I’m also currently the District 22 secretary. Many of my strongest friendships can trace their source to Laser sailing.

So, yes, it’s painful to watch the dwindling fleets. And I’ve gotten a bit grumpy about it.

But sailors have voted with their booties and have either quit sailing or made the move to the younger, sexier Aero.

Maybe it’s even time for the Laser and SLF to die.

The more I think about it, the more I realize that it’s not time for the Laser or my dear SLF to die, but to adapt.

A Quick Word about the Quick Aero

The Aero is certainly a very good boat. I’ve only sailed one for about 30 seconds, but I’ve watched them sail past me and better sailors than I think they’re great. Its rigging is far superior to a Laser’s. It’s a planing machine and has a beautiful carbon rig. Oh yeah, and it’s way lighter, which makes a managing on shore a lot easier. With the “9” rig it’s just plain fast in light air. There have been some teething problems, but not many and RS is very responsive.

Best of all, the RS Aero appears to be drawing sailors who, for one reason or another, aren’t interested in sailing a Laser. A couple weeks ago, champion sailor Libby McKee and my mini transat friend Craig, came out in loaner RS Aeros and both are thinking about jumping back into the singlehanded dinghy world. With the Aero’s “9” rigs, sailing in light air, they ended up first and second and appeared to enjoy themselves enormously.

When the RS Aero first came out, I recognized it as a viable Laser replacement, giving the local Aero (and Laser!) dealer George Yioulos ( West Coast Sailing ) a forum for promoting the boat in the post Laser Killer? way back in June 2014. I’ve referred plenty of people to the Aero fleet here.

I don’t know much about the Melges, but I know the family and they’ll make a great boat and provide superlative support to fleet building.

The future of high-end, simple singlehanded sailing is probably in good hands with either the Aero or the Melges. May the best boat win.

Laser Problems

The Laser has always had its problems. So, for all you haters out there, here’s my list of top Laser “issues,” to which I’m sure you can add.

LaserPerformance continues to do its best to kill the class. When Dave Reed of Sailing World points out that a potential advertiser is screwing up so badly, then it’s common knowledge.

So, here goes with the bad:

• Crappy builder support, including parts availability
• Poor construction currently (including spars)
• Stupidly silly high cost for new models of such an ancient boat
• Painful to sail
• Difficult to sail well – with the result of widely spread fleets
• Limited competitive life of the equipment (hulls get soft and spars break)
• Questions in play about future of brand due to the Kirby lawsuit
• Ancient technology

Top 10 Laser Strengths

One of my Laser sailing friends, who’s been near the top of the Laser fleet nationally for several years, asked rhetorically, “If it’s not an Olympic boat, why would you sail a Laser?” He’s about done with the boat, and after the thousands of hours he’s put into it, I can’t blame him.

But I do see plenty of reasons to sail a Laser even if you’re not dreaming of the Olympics:

• The great feel
• Can sail in virtually any wind
• Great competition, especially internationally
• It develops fitness and toughness
• They’re ubiquitous (arguably the best regatta in the world is Laser Masters Worlds)
• They’re near indestructible for casual sailing/racing
• Cheap for used boats, good for kids coming up
• Best teaching boat ever
• The full, Radial and 4.7 rigs make the Laser a very flexible and effective platform for wide variety of sailors
• They’re just flat out good looking.

So Where Should the Laser Point?

Many classes have been “out-designed” and live happily on. The Star, Opti, 505, Thistle, Snipe, Daysailer, and Shields are some that come to mind. Several of these have a development aspect that keeps sailors engaged. Others are so ubiquitous and accessible that they just keep going. When the pressure of super-competitors has moved to other classes, some have even thrived more.

I hope that as some wealthier and more “serious” singlehanders move to the Melges or Aeros, and the Laser starts to get supplanted as “the” boat, profits will go down and LaserPerformance will sell the product line into more committed hands. And hopefully the class will lose its Olympic status. Everybody talks about Olympic status as a great thing. I’m not sure it is. I was sailing Lasers long before it was an Olympic class and it was just as fun and popular, if not more.

It is an experience to sail with those Olympic guys, maybe even round the first weather mark alongside them (if I go the right way and they go the wrong way). But otherwise, their presence doesn’t really mean much to my sailing. I’m more interested in beating my friends (you Scott and you Joe and you Carlos), who, like me, can’t keep up with the pros.

At the same time, the Laser Class will have to take a good hard look at itself and decide whether it wants to improve the boat or protect the fleet. IMHO, now that there is finally a new sail, the mast is the area of greatest need. A carbon top section (or entire set of spars) has been discussed ad infinitum. Creating a lighter, safer and more importantly, longer-lasting set of spars would make the boat so much better. If the Laser is no longer “the” boat, maybe it will be easier to get that done.

There are a lot of us of all ages who just like sailing the boat, and we’re going to be around for a long time to come. I’m guessing that with a shift in builder and Olympic status, Laser sailing could become more energized. While sometimes we take breaks from sailing, a lot of us tend to come back to Lasers. In my experience, we love to help newbies get to know the Laser’s quirks quickly and don’t mind it too much when we’re surpassed. We’ll still enjoy great racing and still have those awesome international events to attend.

The class could then refocus on getting young sailors into the boat. Basically, at the national and local levels we can reach out to high school sailors and others who can’t spend a lot of money on the new RS or Melges, but who would get just as much fun out of sailing a Laser. If it’s not an Olympic class, gone are the coach’s boats and the intimidation factor.

And maybe the broader thinkers among the Aero and Melges proponents will see that it will do them little good to decry the Laser as a has-been to potential sailors. Lasers have started many thousands of sailors down a path that ends up with them buying a lot of different boats.

In other words, don’t kill the Laser, it can still do the sport (and those builders) a lot of good by introducing folks to dinghy sailing. Just as it’s done for decades.

Basically, I see the Laser returning to its humble, non-ultra-competitive roots. I believe it can live happily there coexisting with the new boats while providing a good option for a lot of sailors, especially the crop of great high school sailors coming up.

Kurt grew up racing and cruising in the Midwest, and has raced Lasers since the late 1970s. Currently he is a broker at Swiftsure Yachts. He has been Assistant Editor at Sailing Magazine and a short stint as Editor of Northwest Yachting. Through Meadow Point Publishing he handles various marketing duties for smaller local companies. He currently is partners on a C&C 36 which he cruises throughout the Northwest. He’s married to the amazing Abby and is father to Ian and Gabe.

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11 thoughts on “ Laser vs Aero vs Melges? That’s Not the Question ”

Great collection of thoughts Kurt. Thanks.

Pingback: Future of Singlehanded Dinghy Racing – Scuttlebutt Sailing News | SFO

I think you will find the Australian built Lasers are in a different league compared to the UK built Lasers.

Yes, the top competitors here brought in Aussie boats, and then UK boats, US boats often came with problems. My understanding is there is no such thing as a US built Laser any more.

Great article on this issue. Of course the mighty Sunfish has survived nicely over the years. Having spent many years racing the laser I now find the VX Evo to be comfortable, fun and fast. Key to me is the comfort piece where I am not hobbling after a big breeze day. The laser is a fantastic boat with great people to race with. I guess I am not willing to sacrifice my knees and comfort now that I have tried a better single handed boat for me. Not to mention you do not bring up body size. At 6’2″ and 205lbs the laser was great for me when it blew hard but a bit more of a struggle in the light stuff against lighter sailors. It is now a great feeling to be in a boat that is more accommodating to various sailor sizes with 3 size sails that all work for me. I would never sail a radial or 4.7 but I have used the A, B and C sail in differing wind strengths on the Evo. It can keep more sailors out racing in broader conditions. When you go to the effort of traveling to a regatta being able to sail in the broadest range of conditions matters. I am sure the Aero does this as well. I will say that if you have not tried a single hander with a kite, the Evo adds a lot of tactical dimensions to the run! So I guess I agree that more single handed choices are better for all of us.

Hopefully someday I’ll get to try an Evo, looks cool.

Thank you for your insight, optimism and excellent narrative!

Wow… I just got back from Shileshole and I counted 12 Aero’s on the i-14 docks, one more in the dry storage lot and one was on the roof of a truck heading out of the marina. It’s nice seeing new boat actually growing in numbers in our area.

In my view the Laser has another strenght. The seating position downwind is much better than the modern designs. The sailor can sit firmly on the flat deck and not crawling around on their knees as in the Melges 14. It is so important to get the legs tucked underneath to stable the body.

Hello Steffen, Good point. I have only sailed the Laser and Aero, so I can’t speak to the Melges or Devoti. But certainly most of us have spent some quality time on the Laser’s back deck! Any other readers have an original observation?

I teach in a college sailing club, which has just acquired a fleet of RS Zests. Many problems with shedding tillers and rudders, poor construction of outhaul, securing rolled-up sail. That’s in one truncated season of use.

For the Aero, I see that there are a bunch of user-created rig re-design details, extra-cost Harken replacement parts. I think the class needs some use to settle down.

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